Widowhood

Speaker 1 (00:08): Welcome to your thriving practice, a podcast from global Atlantic. I'm your host. Dan Corcoran global Atlantic is a leading us retirement and life insurance company offering a broad range of competitive and innovative products. We continue our series on your thriving practice and our discussion of women and investing, including how financial professionals can attract and retain more female clients and help them thrive. When you're working with women, particularly women over 50. One of the things that's going to come up is widowhood. The average age at which women become widows in the us is 59.4 years and many widows, about 70%. According to a 2020 morning star report, leave the financial professionals who had represented them as a couple within a year of a spouse's death. That's not good news, but there are steps financial professionals can take to not be a part of that statistic here to share their knowledge with us or Ann Hughes and Patti Hausherr, both experts on women in finance. We're so glad you're both here with us to talk about this today.

Speaker 2 (01:16): It's great to be here and great to be back.

Speaker 3 (01:19): Yeah. Great to be back with you both.

Speaker 1 (01:21): So Anne and Patti, that 70% number, it's pretty staggering. Let's start there. Why does so many widows leave their current financial advisor? Patti will hear from you first. It seems like this would be a time when professional financial guidance would really be more valued than ever.

Speaker 3 (01:37): Yeah, well, it is a staggering statistic. I mean, if you put together the fact that seven outta 10 leave within the first year of losing their husband and you couple that with the average age of widowhood being only 59 years old, I mean, this is typically a time where when assets are at an all time high pre distribution, I mean, it would have to be the single last client that any financial professional would wAnne lose yet here. So many are leaving. So, uh, you know, I think there are several reasons which we can talk about, but clearly the relationship she had with the financial professional prior to losing her husband was not a strong one because if it was she would've stayed. So, you know, I think it really begins with that relationship

Speaker 2 (02:28): To add on to what Patti said. The other thing, if they didn't have a strong relationship with the female in that couple relationship combined with the fact, there is no shortage of advice and people wanting to do well or be helpful when someone is going through something as traumatic as losing a spouse or a partner. And so what happens is everyone is trying to help her. So they will stop by neighbors, friends, the funeral director. Do you have a financial advisor or professional that you like to work with? Because if you don't, I have a great one. So there is no shortage of referrals of recommendations. So it's so important as a financial professional to really build a moat around your clients, to have those strong relationships. So she knows when a traumatic life event happens. You're the first call after the dust settles that she makes because you have spent years caring and feeding that relationship so that she feels as if you do have her best interest at heart, it's a natural step. Then when something traumatic like this happens that you would reach out to you. If that relationship is not there, you don't get that phone call.

Speaker 1 (03:37): I mean, a new widow. This is such a vulnerable time for this person. I mean, they're going through so much, like you said, all these people come to their home, talking with them, consoling them, giving them advice. When they're already going through so much, talk about how a financial professional can help in that process.

Speaker 3 (03:56): Well, there are a couple things that we need to assess, I think up front. And that's how strong is the relationship with each in the couple? The first thing we can do is distribute eye contact evenly. When we're meeting with couples, making two copies of the materials that we're going to go through, whether we're meeting with them virtually sending out two packages or we're meeting with them in person having two packages, it, it sends a clear message. We also recommend just answering some basic questions about each of them. We called a tea chart exercise, and you create a tea chart with his name on one side of the chart and her name on the other and ask some basic questions like, uh, where did you grow up? Where did you go to school? What are your interests outside of work? What's your number one goal for your money and answer as what you know, from your relationship with him and what you know of his relationship with her and see, you know, just really test your knowledge on how well, you know, each of them.

Speaker 1 (05:02): And you'll see on paper right in front of you, what you know about each of these clients,

Speaker 3 (05:07): And you'll see where you're deficient. So if you were to call them back for your next meeting and understand, you know, to ask the question, Hey, you know, I don't really know where you grew up, where, you know, where did you grow up? So it's really sort of filling out where you feel deficient in the relationship

Speaker 2 (05:22): And you know, what else is great about this? It shows those clients you're thinking about them. It's not just the time that they're in front of you, but you're putting thoughts together on how well do I know both of these individuals in a couple, where are those gaps and what can I do better to fill those gaps? So I think it sends a really powerful message that you care about them, and you wAnne enhance that relationship. And the other great thing about the teach chart, it's free. It doesn't cost. That's true, anything. So it's a great paper tool, right? For you to use. How do your eye contact comment is so relevant? And I will tell you in having worked in this industry for over 20 years and especially my work with the female effect meeting with so many clients of our industry, and that is one of the top things that she says is if she is part of a couple, how often the eye contact and the interaction goes directly to her spouse or partner, as opposed to her, we make a note of that.

Speaker 2 (06:21): I, I would say that every female that maybe listening to this can think of an instance in their life, in a professional setting, where they felt absolutely invisible, whether it's the purchase of a car, whether it's loan, any kind of interaction, there's always times where we can think of, we, we just didn't even feel like we were a party to the conversation. And I was working with a financial professional doing coaching. This was several years ago. And he said to me, I have such a difficult time giving eye contact or maintaining eye contact with the female of a couple. I don't know why. And I said, well, let's do this exercise when they come to meet with you, whether it's across the desk or across the conference room table, put her directly across from you so that you look up and that's the natural place.

Speaker 2 (07:09): Your eyes are going to go, then put her spouse next to her. So you have to actively look away to look at him. And he did this. He said it only took about six times and this became my absolute habit. And I, he said, I see what a difference. It makes. She's engaged in the conversation. She is an active participant. She wants to come back. She feels valued. And he said, it's such a small thing, but I was taking it for granted and I didn't do it. And now she opens up to me. And so I think it's those small, simple things, whether it may be widowhood, may, maybe it's gray divorce, maybe it's some other interaction you have with clients or potential clients. She notices if that eye contact is coming her way. And she certainly notices it if it does not. Yeah.

Speaker 3 (07:56): Another one I thought was, uh, was great is if you've got two and a couple and one of 'em leaves the room, maybe to take a phone call or whatnot, how easily does that conversation come with the remaining, uh, person in the room. So it's, it's really about having a strong relationship with each of them individually and viewing them as individuals versus

Speaker 2 (08:18): A couple.

Speaker 1 (08:19): Now, these are very basic things. We're talking about eye contact and how that can make or break a relationship. So talk about some of the other things that are leading women widows away from the financial professional that they had been working with when their spouse was still alive, what's driving them away.

Speaker 2 (08:37): It boils down to interaction and inclusion. And I think this is something that has stuck with me for the last 10 years. And so when I was first starting, the female effect, one of my first presentations was for a large group, uh, of prospective female clients or clients. This was in Indianapolis, Indiana. And after I spoke, it was in a large amphitheater. So there wasn't a lot of room for interaction, but after I got done speaking, a woman came up to me and said, can I speak to you for a few minutes? And I said, certainly, and she was visibly shaken. She was crying and very upset. And I said, can you share your story with me? And she said, I wish I had been engaged with our finances and worked with our professional instead of delegating it away to my husband all these years.

Speaker 2 (09:25): I always thought, oh, that's his department. He's good at it. I never went to the meetings. Even though that financial professional encouraged me to go, I just didn't bother. And she said, here's what happened. And this is coming off the heels of a financial crisis of 2008 and 2009. And she said, my husband always dealt with the finances. And unbeknownst to me, he was making transactions and investing outside of our financial advisor. And he was very aggressive. Then when the market hit all the problems and the market crashed, she said, I had no idea, but he had lost 50% of our assets. And he didn't tell me. And she said with what was left, he became even more aggressive, double down, trying to recoup it. He subsequently had a massive heart attack and passed away. And she said, I had no idea what was going on because I wasn't engaged.

Speaker 2 (10:18): I didn't know what we had or where we had it or who we were working with. And she said, I am 73 years old. And I am going out to get my first job. She said, the only thing that we have left or I have left is social security. It is all gone. She said, if only I had heard you talk 20 years ago or more, I wouldn't have be in this situation. I wouldn't have made those mistakes. That's the impact when you're suddenly widowed and you're not involved. And you wAnne think that this is an extreme case, but I hear versions of this more times than I would ever want to. So as a financial professional work, as Patti said with that list of, to get them engaged, to make sure they feel included to say things, especially if it's only the male part of a couple or female coming, but say, I don't believe that I'm doing my job to the best of my ability.

Speaker 2 (11:10): If I don't meet with both of you, because as hard as it is to think about one of you is likely to outlive the other. I want to be a good advisor or professional for both of you. And if I'm not meeting with both of you getting to know you, knowing what your hopes, fears, dreams are with your retirement, how can I best serve your interests when you say that it, for that spouse that maybe thinks that they can handle it all or thinks they don't need to come. That is really something that I think breaks it right down. And they understand you want to do your job. You want to meet their needs, but you cannot do it if you're not meeting with both of them. So lock those in lock those relationships up so that these women who so need our advice are not walking out the door at the worst possible time in their life.

Speaker 1 (11:58): So much of what Ann is discussing right now, Patti has to do with just basic communication, not just with one member of a couple, but the couple as a whole. It seems like something that shouldn't be overlooked, but it is in this industry. Do you have an example of how quickly that relationship between a client and a financial professional can just dissolve?

Speaker 3 (12:21): Yeah. I had the opportunity to work with a financial professional in Fairfield county, Connecticut. We'll call him Charlie for our purposes today. He had a husband and wife, couple, a relationship that he had managed for over 20 years. And one day he gets a phone call from the family saying that the husband had passed away of a massive heart attack, uh, unexpected. And, uh, they asked Charlie to be the pole bear at the funeral. And of course he was. And do you know, within one week of bearing his client, the other client, the spouse had moved over 10 million away from Charlie. So he was devastated. But the good news is that Charlie took a step back from his practice and really evaluated the relationship with both individuals in the couple and particularly his relationship with the woman. And when I asked him questions about his relationship with her and him, and they actually did come in together for the most part, I mean, there were sometimes they didn't, but she was there.

Speaker 3 (13:24): Um, but she wasn't engaged and that's what he missed. And when I asked him questions about her, he couldn't really answer 'em. So, you know, I think to Ann's point, which I, which I really love, I think as fine financial professionals, we really have to have the conviction that it's so important for them to both be a part. And I read a staff the other day that said 69% of women describe becoming the sole financial decision maker as the greatest challenge they ever faced. I mean, so we, as an industry really need to take a position to say, we can never let that happen. You know, we can never have a situation where we've got a woman grieving the loss of her husband, and now being forced quickly into something. She was never a part of. And that's making critical decisions about her financial future.

Speaker 1 (14:15): It's not just smoke and mirrors. You actually need these people to be invested in this relationship.

Speaker 2 (14:21): Absolutely. It's 50% of the relationship. It should also be 50% of your interaction and time. And we know this, we, we hear these stats over and over again, right? The average age of widowhood, 59.4 years of age, I'll tell you when I'm presenting live and in person. And I ask that question of the audience. What's the average age of widowhood. I get gas at 70, 73, 75. It's startling to people. It's startling to me because we often think, oh, there we have so much more time to get our ducks in a row or so much more time to learn about our finances.

Speaker 3 (14:56): The worst

Speaker 2 (14:57): Possible time, as I said, is when you're coming out of a traumatic event, trying to gather paperwork, trying to understand what you have. You can't think clearly, how could you possibly, and so, to be able to have the peace of mind that you're already engaged, that you already understand this and are ready to go as an active participant in the event, or when something happens is just essential.

Speaker 1 (15:19): And for a financial professional, this shouldn't be an incredibly heavy lift. The client is already here. So it's all about communication, respect and keeping that relationship going, right?

Speaker 2 (15:34): Yes, it is. I think everyone would agree much easier to retain clients by building these strong relationships than going out and prospecting and finding a new $10 million client. So the care and feeding of who you have right in front of you in your book of business is paramount.

Speaker 1 (15:51): Let's talk about some of the specific financial challenges that a widow might face and how a financial professional can help guide her through those challenges. It's gotta be a tough, emotional, personally distraught time, but decisions do have to be made. So talk about how a pro financial professional would guide these people through that.

Speaker 2 (16:11): I think it's making it manageable. And we know there are so many decisions to be made upon the passing of a partner or a spouse. So being able to break those decisions down by saying, this is what we need to do in the very near term, this is what we can address six months out or three months out or a year out painting that picture, providing that roadmap is so important. And it's not just the technical ability that you have as a financial professional, which obviously is essential and very important, but it's how you can create something that seems so unmanageable into a process where she can digest it, where she can make good solid decisions and have the confidence to be able to make those decisions based on your guidance. And you help her take some of the emotion out of it to say, I hear what you're saying. You, you don't wAnne sell the home or you would like to stay in it. It's too much change. Let's talk about that. Let's see if from a financial standpoint, is that the best decision for you long term, so that you have a good solid foundation for the rest of the years of your life. And so it's managing both her maybe emotional expectations or decision making with what financially and technically are some of the decisions that she probably could be making or should be making it's

Speaker 3 (17:33): Being prepared. So it's, what are all the accounts we have out there? What are the passwords it's documenting this? So that in the event of either one of their loss, the other one has access to funds knows where all of the assets are knows how to get to them. They're dually titled. If, if that is the right thing. So we actually have a piece at global Atlantic, it's called a surviving spouse checklist, and we had no idea how this piece would be flying off the shelf. It, it is just that it's a document to Ann's point. You know, what decisions need to be made immediately? What decisions can be made four weeks out, six weeks out, a year out where are all the accounts today? What are the account numbers, the passwords. So it's, it's really a document that puts this all together and something that's available to financial professionals through global Atlantic.

Speaker 1 (18:27): And if you're a financial professional, that's listening to this right now, and you're thinking maybe I can do better with my relationships with couples full couples. What would you say are the first steps to do that? I mean, obviously you don't wAnne wait too long time is of the essence when it comes to this sort of thing, where do they start?

Speaker 3 (18:47): I have couples come up and ask or not couples advisors come up and, and ask that question. And it's not revamping your whole practice or anything. It's take a look at the top 20 couples in your book and go through that tea chart, exercise, you know, how much do you know about each of 'em and where you are feeling short, bring them in, you know, bring them in and fill in those gaps, find a way to establish a connection and start rebuilding or building for the first time. The relationship with maybe her that you didn't necessarily have retention is the new growth these days. And to ensure that you have a strong relationship with both in your couples, because retaining those assets is really, really important. So to go back and reevaluate your relationship with your best clients and keep them close, and if they're weak strengthen them,

Speaker 2 (19:44): I love that. We've talked about the fact that the Oliver WMAN study shows that our industry is leaving 700 billion on the table by not working with female clients. To the same degree, we do our male clients and representing products and providing them solutions. It is a phenomenal opportunity to grow our industry combined with the fact that it is the right thing to do. I would encourage everyone. If you're interested as a financial professional in working with female clients, going through things like this, Kathleen real has some great information on the three stages of widowhood and grief and their grief growth, and grace. It's a great way to understand how she's processing information and how she's moving through these. So I would highly recommend that if you are interested in this again, it's Kathleen Rio, last name R E H L. And it's the stages of widowhood and grief and what is also so important.

Speaker 2 (20:39): We talk about the stat, right? 70% of women fire their financial professional upon the spa passing of their spouse. But think about the fact that she is the beneficiary of his accounts and his policies, and she he's likely going to pass first. If they have children, they're the beneficiary of all that remains and her assets. This is the key to intergenerational planning. If you want to grow your business, having those strong relationship with female clients of couples also results in strong relationships with their children, have those family planning meetings, have the ki adult children come in to discuss what their beneficiaries of what their parents want for them. It it's usually around the age of 35 that we go out and find a financial professional on our own. If you have somebody that your parents worked with and they trusted, and they know how this money was made and what their intentions were, they're so much more likely to stick with you. This is a way to grow your practice, not just with her, but with the family members. And I think what, uh, is also so important is studies show that women are far more loyal to a service provider than a product. Men are the opposite. So she refers. She's happy with you. She refers 26 times to our male counterpart 11, that should make everybody wake up and pay attention. That when you have happy female clients, they stay with you. They refer their children and they refer their friends.

Speaker 1 (22:12): Some really valuable insights right there. I think people listening right now are really, really hearing what you two are saying. Ann and Patti, thank you both so much for being here today.

Speaker 2 (22:22): Thank you. Thank you.

Speaker 1 (22:23): So listeners, if you enjoy this episode, don't forget to listen to our other episodes on women and investing, tackling the topics of gray divorce, caregiving, and small business owners. I'm Dan Corcoran. Thank you so much for being with us and we'll see you next time on your thriving practice, Global Atlantics, your thriving practice podcasts are available on your favorite podcasting app or at global atlantic.com/professionals. The opinions, beliefs, and viewpoints expressed by the guests on this podcast do not necessarily reflect the opinions, beliefs, and viewpoints of global Atlantic financial group.