Caregiving

Speaker 1 (00:07): Welcome back to your thriving practice, a podcast from global Atlantic. I'm your host, Dan Coran. Today we're continuing with our thriving practice series, focusing on how financial professionals can attract and retain more female clients and help them thrive. In this episode, we're again, joined by women and finance experts, Patti Hausherr, and Ann Hughes. If you haven't already be sure to go back and listen to our first two episodes covering divorce and widowhood. Now let's dive into today's topic. Caregivers, Ann Patti. Welcome back.

Speaker 2 (00:43): Thanks Dan. It's great to be here.

Speaker 3 (00:45): Yeah. Thanks Dan.

Speaker 1 (00:46): All right. Let's dive into today's topic, which is caregivers. So Ann, why are caregivers such an important demographic for financial professionals?

Speaker 2 (00:54): Because there are so many of us it's astounding and especially as our population ages and as baby boomers age out of the workforce and start to need more care. We're literally everywhere. And we talk about for years, the term sandwich generation, right? That's those that have a small child at home or a child at home that they are taking care of or funding for college and also taking care of an elder parent or relative. And in this country today, 33% of American families are part of that sandwich generation with 66% of those caregivers being women. And this is something that is taxing on our finances and our time, our energy level, our ability to earn and provide. And so it really is something that the financial professional population can help. Ex just exponentially with women that are faced with these challenges to take care of everyone.

Speaker 1 (01:52): 66% of caregivers are women. That's a huge chunk of the pie. So Patti, talk about this. Why is this such an important demographic for financial professionals?

Speaker 3 (02:01): Well, it's, it's funny. I read something recently from RBC wealth management and they did a study and they found that women that have caregiving responsibilities lose on average about $35,000 a year in income. So that's pretty significant when you are preparing for retirement. So I think the, the time and the expense that caregivers exhaust can have a detrimental impact on their finances overall. And we need to recognize that.

Speaker 1 (02:32): So let's talk about who we're talking about today. Caregivers, who are they, how do they show up in your workplace?

Speaker 2 (02:38): They're literally everywhere and you can't go without talking to a coworker or a friend and it comes up in conversation. There's just so many of us in these roles as caregivers. And I think about my own personal situation. My mom was diagnosed with metastatic breast cancer and she passed away in 2014. I was responsible for her care and helping her. And it was very taxing at the same time. That's the year my daughter went off to college. And so I'm trying to provide for my daughter and college and make sure she's set up. And then also trying to take care of my mom and I travel for a living with work. And so it was extremely difficult and we tried so many different options from in-home care to assisted living, to then more advanced hospice care. And it's just, it, it overwhelms you and you start to feel like you're letting everyone down.

Speaker 2 (03:33): You're not doing enough for everyone and monetarily it takes its toll. And so for me, this is very near and dear to my heart and very personal knowing that it was very difficult. And I come from a place of knowing finances and working in this industry. And it absolutely impacted my ability to earn, to save and to even have the energy to do my job. So I think when you talk about financial professionals, they have an instrumental role in helping us get through our role as caregivers to help us not just with how we plan finances for our elder parent or relative that we want to take care of. But then also reminding us that we need to have a plan ourselves. What I think is startling is that 69% of aging adults in this country have not discussed their own caregiving. Wow. Yet? There's right. Wow. But they're seeing the impact of what happens when you don't, because they're in it on the flip side, living it every day, caring for someone else

Speaker 1 (04:33): And that 69% number huge, it seems like they're so busy with taking care of other people. They don't take care of themselves. Exactly. Do you see that in your practice?

Speaker 2 (04:43): Absolutely. It's the cycle is repeating itself for Danny. Very reason that you said we're busy, we're spread so thin. And so we're still trying to earn a living or manage our household or take care of kids at home and then layering on top taking care of an elder parent or relative. It's all we can do to keep our head above water. So to think about taking time out, to create our own caregiving plan when we may need, it just seems like one more task on the list.

Speaker 3 (05:10): I think a common occurrence or something we commonly hear about as financial professionals is the scenario where you've got the couple, both are aging, one needs care. And the other is exhausting. A lot of their financial resources to care for that person. And then the survivor really doesn't have any resources left of their own. And typically the survivor is the woman, right? Because she lives longer. So I get nervous sometimes when I see that and you know, we just see money going out the doors and really the plan needs to encompass care for

Speaker 2 (05:52): Both. And I think when you're in it, you're not thinking about that long term need for two lives or a plan because you it's your loved one. You wanna give them the best possible care and meet their wishes if they want care given in a certain way, but it isn't selfish. You have to have a plan to Patti's point that covers two lives. And knowing that it is typically her, that is going to be the surviving spouse and could live a very long time. On average women live five years longer than our male counterparts. So you're facing a situation where there's going to be a need for care for her, with resources that have been depleted and a longer life expectancy.

Speaker 1 (06:32): So when dealing with a caregiver, that's going through a really tough time, an ailing spouse or parent, how do you kind of tackle that conversation? Because they're not really thinking straight, they have big decisions to make, and they're so emotionally involved. How do you get through to what they need to be talking about?

Speaker 2 (06:50): That's right. And it's, everyone's inclination to give the best care possible and to do whatever it takes. Ultimately it is the decision of the client and the caregiver and the one receiving care, but it is incumbent upon that financial professional to paint the picture, the reality of what this may look like for the surviving spouse and that's difficult to do, but if you don't do it, who will. And so being able to lay it out in a very factual, yet compassionate mAnnr of this is what life might look like as the surviving spouse and what you'll be left with to live off of needs to be done. And unfortunately, it's not done enough because as caregivers or those needing care, we don't wanna hear it. And so we don't often consult and get that advice. But when you are working with clients and you are working with couples or caregivers, it's incumbent, as I said, that you do paint that picture because they need to be armed with information to make good informed choices, however difficult they may be.

Speaker 3 (07:51): I'm going through this right now with the dear, dear friends of mine. So he is exhausting, their financial resources, which I don't have the whole picture of, but he's exhausting. Those resources for 24 hour care with no insurance right now for his wife who I don't know what her life expectancy is gonna be clearly, but he is not concerned at all about his own care because he is only looking to provide her with the best possible scenario. So to ask that question of him is, you know, you need to also be thinking about your own care and you know, his need to have her home because that's where he thinks the best care is. Really. If she were in the facility a couple miles down the road financially, it would be a much better scenario. So his emotional sense about wanting her to be cared for the best, which would be him caring for her financially is not the best route,

Speaker 2 (08:53): Great point. And the inverse is true. I bet if you asked her, we see over and over again, those receiving the care don't want the resources depleted. They have the same wish for their spouse or partner. They want them to be taken care of. And so oftentimes we go into it with this sense of, I have to give them the best care or what they thought they might once have, but not at the expense of your own financial wellbeing and your spouse or partner would not want that either. And I think that goes back to again, the financial professional, being that voice of reason and reminding them, you know, that is true. They would not want that for me. And most of us have gone through it. So for them to be able to share a personal story that they've been there is very disarming and it creates that compassion that you do know what I'm going through. You've gone through it yourself. And so being able to give those stories and relate to it or other clients perhaps that have been in similar situations and what you are able to do coming from a place of compassion versus don't worry, I'll take care of everything is huge. And then letting them again, have those emotions and those feelings, because it is just gut wrenching.

Speaker 3 (10:02): According to a 2020, a, a R P study, 23% of Americans say caregiving has made their own health worse. And so that worries me. I mean, my, my, uh, 91 year old mother is a caregiver to my 90 year old father. And she has let some things go like her dental treatment that, that she needs because she's putting her own health second. So yeah. You know, having the plan that would enable caregivers to take care of themselves as they are caregivers, I think is important. And something that we all in in this industry want to set our clients up to be able to do

Speaker 2 (10:42): On the flip side. I think what's so instrumental also for financial professionals is when you are working with somebody that is giving care that you are that gatekeeper or the safe keep of that person's assets, because what happens. And we see in record numbers in this country, whether it's elder abuse physically or financially, when people start to enter a caregiving situation, that is when the crooks come out and the thieves. And so being that financial professional, you're in a great place to be monitoring those accounts, to see if somebody is signing up to be a beneficiary, all of a sudden that wasn't before, or if somebody is approaching either the client getting care or you to start asking questions about what's in the account or making decisions when they're not on the list. So that's some, a role that, that we all can play. That is so instrumental in just making sure that our clients that are in a caregiving situation or receiving care are not being taken advantage of.

Speaker 1 (11:46): So given these unique challenges, how can financial professionals best support their clients who are caregivers? How can you support them?

Speaker 2 (11:54): 80% of nursing home residents are women 80%. Wow. The average cost across the country is anywhere from 3,500 to $7,500 a month, depending on the type of care we are going to live a long time. We need to be able to fund that care. And so that's one very important rule. But then the second is how do we support those giving care and letting them know that we are there for them, that we will help with a roadmap. Also, it can be a dose of reality. People that are needing care often don't have realistic expectations of how far their money will go. So I hear so often I don't wanna go to a nursing home. I don't wanna go to assisted living. I wanna keep the house. I wanna stay here, bring somebody in here, or I don't need anyone at all. Well, a lot of times though, those don't match with the medical need. And so to have that voice of reason as the financial professional saying, this is what can be afforded. Uh, unfortunately this is the level of care. It may be exactly what, what that person wants or needs, or it may not. But somewhere that voice of reason has to come into play. And what we also find with those that are caregivers dipping into their own retirement savings to pay for someone else's care. Yep. Right. And that, yeah,

Speaker 3 (13:16): That's scary. It's so scary to see, watch that happen.

Speaker 2 (13:20): It's so frightening, right? Because there's a lot of loans out there, right? There's loans for kids to go to college there's loans for homes. There are no loans to head into retirement. It is completely self-funded other than social security. And we do, we see that so often in my own situation, dipping into my savings to help my mom. Now, my dad lives in Iowa and in assisted living and it's expensive. And so you're trying to find ways to help and subsidize their retirement or their, their caregiving. So that financial professional can say, you know what? I think we need to tap the breaks here. We need to look at your own financial security before you start giving everyone else money. Because again, then we go back to repeat the cycle. If I run outta money, we're gonna hope that my daughter takes care of me, but it's a little iffy . So I hope she shows up, but we're just repeating that cycle. That it's then somebody else's responsibility. That's why planning as early as you can and being engaged and asking for those that, to put that on the list as a financial professional with every client, say, what are your feelings for long term care? What are your sources of, of income to pay for that? And what is your ideal state of care? The sooner we have those conversations, the better, but unfortunately, because it's not a very attractive topic, it gets left off the list.

Speaker 1 (14:42): One of the things we talk about here a lot is just communication, basic communication between client and financial professional. When it comes to conversations with a caregiver, how do you treat those conversations differently? Because quite frankly, these people can be very busy people with schedules that don't always fit with a nine to five talk about approaching those conversations differently.

Speaker 3 (15:04): I have a financial professional who every year has an event the same time every year for all the caregivers in his book of business. And I just think it's brilliant and it's become a very, uh, well attended event. And what he's done is he's brought caregivers together. So they sort of create a network, um, aligned people together so that they can form a relationship amongst them, and oftentimes brings in different resources, which are all geared around the health of the caregiver and keeping yourself healthy. So tho those are a couple thoughts

Speaker 1 (15:39): When you meet with these caregivers, how much of it is an educational process for them? Are you teaching them? Are there, are you filling those knowledge gaps and how important is that part of the conversation?

Speaker 2 (15:49): I think it's a, it's very difficult, right? As a financial professional, you have a lot to keep track of. And so you don't have to know everything about caregiving, but have those resources. And so whether it it's the national association of caregivers, whether it's the American council on aging or a, a R P, there are so many resources that can help with the cost of care, with subsidizing care, with going through various options. So you don't have to know it all. That's a lot to take on, but to have that resource, to be able to share with your clients, as they're trying to make their own decisions, or perhaps creating a care plan for someone else. And so I think that's the real takeaway is building your referral network, your resource network, so that you have somebody, you know, that you work with that does estate planning does wills.

Speaker 2 (16:39): That if you don't do a lot in long-term care or the insurance area in your practice, that you can partner with someone that does that, you understand what options can fund long-term care outside of a standard long-term care policy, which have become harder to find and certainly more expensive. And so open up your resource network. So you are that trusted professional so that you don't have to know it all, but that you're making those introductions to help with those plans. And there's also great books. There's one called the working daughter that I would highly recommend by Liz O'Donnell. And she wrote this after being a caregiver to, to her parents and saw first hand the toll that it takes both physically, mentally, and financially, it's a wonderful resource. And then I would also recommend the 36 hour day, which as caregivers are being responsible for care, a lot of days feel like that or longer. And that's by Nancy mace and Peter Ravens. And it gives a very good look. She as an ma and he is an MD, and it gives a, a perspective on both the emotional, mental toll. It takes a as well as certainly physical. So those are two resources that I would recommend. And they're wonderful things for you to give your clients who are in a caregiving role is get these books and, and give them to them. No, that's a really good idea, Ian,

Speaker 1 (17:59): And one thing I think that really highlights is that the role of a caregiver is not an easy job. I mean, it's so hard and it doesn't really get too much publicity out there. Can you talk about what you would say to somebody who walked into your office today and said, I'm a caregiver for my ailing parent, what do I need to do to get started?

Speaker 2 (18:21): It's an excellent question. And part of what I think should be in every financial professionalionals tool bag is a checklist of when you have somebody that needs care or will be providing care. Here's the things that we can go through. What are your finances? What is the money available to provide care? Both that the person needing the care has. And if you have a contribution that you can make let's level set, because that is gonna influence the decisions on the type of care where it's achieved, if it's in the home, if it's in a facility, so we've got a level set and be realistic, again, you provide that voice of reason. But then think about the other things that they're going to need, whether it's medical history, whether it's putting together a list of all the medical professionals that provide that care. So it's in a one stop shop.

Speaker 2 (19:11): There's a great resource out there. And again, it's on the American council of aging that has checklists and other information that you can use with clients as a financial professional. One of the things that has really come into play is certainly Alzheimer's and dementia that are at all time highs, getting this information together while somebody that needs care that may be suffering from memory issues is much better when they can still remember trying to recreate things as diseases advance, as memory issues, advance becomes extremely difficult. So if you can provide them that roadmap of things that they're going to need and need fairly quickly to manage their care and make good decisions, you're their go-to person. And, and that will pay back tenfold.

Speaker 1 (19:57): All of that really highlights the important relationship between client caregiver and their financial professionals. So, Ann, Patti, thanks again for this conversation today.

Speaker 2 (20:07): Thanks Dan. It's great to be a part of

Speaker 1 (20:09): It. And listeners, if you enjoyed this episode, don't forget to listen to our other episodes on women and investing. We discuss great divorce, widowhood and small business owners. I'm Dan corporate. Thank you so much for being with us and we'll see you next time. Global Atlantics, your thriving practice podcasts are available on your favorite podcasting app or at global atlantic.com/professionals. The opinions, beliefs, and viewpoints expressed by the guests on this podcast do not necessarily reflect the opinions, beliefs, and viewpoints of global Atlantic financial group.